🌊 The Death of Late Night Comedy

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By Max Towey

Last December, when Roca was just us three founders and a single employee, videographer Drew, we went bowling in Times Square to celebrate the holidays.

When we got to the alley, we were relegated to a side lane, for a private event had overtaken the main area. We figured it was the corporate holiday party of a law or financial firm. But no: It was the holiday party of “The Late Show.” A few security guards shooed us away when we got close, but we stayed close enough to hear Stephen Colbert’s year-end speech.

“We’ve had some very, very dark times this year, but also we’ve had some of the best times, because this country turns to you,” he said. 

Not anymore. 

Last Thursday night, a solemn Colbert told his studio crowd, “Next year will be our last season. The network will be ending the Late Show in May.”

The crowd erupted with boos. He continued: “I’m not being replaced. This is all just going away.”

The other late-night hosts – Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Fallon, Seth Meyers, and Jon Stewart – all showed up to the Ed Sullivan Theater for Colbert’s next taping. They wanted to be there for their friend’s funeral.

But it wasn’t merely Colbert’s funeral; in a way, it was all of theirs. For it’s not simply CBS’ “The Late Show” that’s going away. But, as Colbert said, all of it.

Hours before Colbert broke the news and sent the internet into a frenzy, Shane Gillis sat in the living room of his apartment to record an episode of “Matt and Shane’s Secret Podcast.” Gillis has hosted the podcast with his friend Matt McCusker since 2016. In that period, he’s built a small comedy empire. Despite episodes being free, fans voluntarily contribute more to “Matt and Shane’s Secret Podcast” on Patreon than to any other show. With two microphones and a camera, the pair is making $500,000+ per month from subscriptions alone. 

Colbert and Gillis have little in common; however, after last Thursday, they can relate about one thing: Being fired. In 2019, Gillis reached the first pinnacle of comedy when he made SNL’s cast. The internet then dredged up an old clip of “Matt and Shane’s Secret Podcast,” in which Gillis used the “c**nk” slur in a riff about Chinatown. Five days after SNL signed Gillis, it fired him. 

So Gillis is similar to Colbert in that regard, but perhaps only in that regard.

In recent years, Colbert’s viewership has rapidly declined. Meanwhile, Gillis has become a giant: A regular on Joe Rogan’s show, he now regularly sells out arenas and last year set the attendance record at the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia. He’s so big that amid the public’s backlash against “wokeness,” he’s the one the establishment institutions turned to to prove that they were in touch: Netflix bought both a stand-up special and a sketch comedy show from him; Bud Light tapped him to be its spokesperson after the Dylan Mulvaney debacle; and ESPN had him host its award show, the ESPYs.

That last gig, earlier this month, prompted mixed reviews: The crowd hated it while the internet loved it. One joke highlights that gap: 

Gillis told the crowd, “Four-time WNBA all-star Brittany Hicks is here. Give it up for Brittany, everybody!” The crowd cheered loudly as the camera cut to a black woman in the crowd waving at the camera. Then Gillis delivered the blow: “I’m joking around – that’s my friend’s wife. I knew none of you knew WNBA players. That’s crazy you all clapped for that.” The woman, it turns out, was Matt McCusker’s wife; the crowd was shown to know nothing about women’s sports. To say the joke went mega-viral would be an understatement. 

The culmination of Gillis’ emergence from the depths of cancellation, however, was his return to SNL as its host – an honor he’s been given twice, in February 2024 and March 2025. The show that fired him ended up bending the knee to him – all through the power of his living room podcast.

So why does Shane Gillis matter? The answer is simple: His success exposes the absurdity of the late-night TV model, on which Stephen Colbert’s “The Late Show” still depends. In a world with Shane Gillis, it’s no longer possible to justify Stephen Colbert – at least, as he currently exists.

Before diving into the numbers, we’d like to establish this up-front: We don’t know, nor is it relevant to this piece, whether Colbert’s show was cancelled for political reasons. The timing of the cancellation was, indeed, suspicious: Colbert was a constant Trump critic, and CBS’ parent company, Paramount, has been fighting for approval from the Trump Administration to merge with Skydance Media. On Thursday, exactly one week after Colbert announced his cancellation, the government granted permission. Was Colbert’s cancellation a requisite? Is this a sign of fascism, as some – like “The View” hosts – have claimed? 

That’s for you to decide. But what we do know is that from a business perspective, Colbert’s show should have been cancelled, and money is CBS’ stated reason for doing so: “This is purely a financial decision against a challenging backdrop in late night,” the network said. “It is not related in any way to the show's performance, content or other matters happening at Paramount.”

Colbert’s show was bleeding money. Per The Wall Street Journal, the show was profitable “as recently as a few years ago.” Now, high costs and declining ad dollars mean “The Late Show” loses $40M to $50M per year. The show employs a staff of 200 people, a live band, and pays Colbert up to $20M a year. As cord-cutting continues and the Shane Gillises of the world continue to rise, there’s no indication this situation will improve. 

Colbert isn’t alone: His 2.4M nightly viewership is actually more than all the competition. Seth Meyers, Jimmy Fallon, and Jimmy Kimmel are all doing worse. Only Fox News’ “Gutfeld!” – the sole conservative late-night host – beats Colbert. 

And herein lies another truth: In a country where 50% of voters selected Donald Trump, the talk-show hosts have continued to alienate that audience with persistently coastal and liberal perspectives. As streaming, podcasts, and other media have put unprecedented pressure on late-night viewership, the late-night hosts have only narrowed their target markets. 

It wasn’t always this way: The original late-night hosts, from Johnny Carson through Jay Leno and David Letterman, did not have a partisan angle. The lion’s share of Americans could watch them and enjoy them. Today, late-night TV is for liberals (and Gutfeld! is for Republicans). 

Shane Gillis, on the other hand, is for everyone who is not politically correct. His politics are a mystery; people debate them constantly. He makes fun of everyone and everything. The late-night hosts have chosen partisan lanes; he has avoided them and is now reaping the benefit.

There are people Colbert could look to for inspiration. One is Conan O’Brien: In November 2020, TBS nixed Conan’s show after 28 years on the air. He’s since strung together one of the most impressive financial runs among talk show hosts in history. After leaving TBS, he turned his “Conan O’Brien Needs a Friend” podcast into a giant and built a comedy podcast network around it. SiriusXM bought that for $150M in 2023. As a cherry on top, Conan took home the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor, the highest comedy award there is, this March.

Conan did all that with a fraction of the staff and resources he had on cable TV, and without the establishment, corporate political agenda that critics accuse Colbert of bringing each night – right at the time everyday Americans look to unwind.

And while we doubt that the soon-to-be-unemployed Colbert will look to Gillis for inspiration, he should: Based on our back-of-the-envelope calculations, Gillis makes $15M+ annually – and possibly much more – by hosting a podcast out of his living room with his buddy. Gillis doesn’t have to negotiate tax credits with states and working conditions with several different labor unions to get his podcast done. Instead, his comedy juggernaut runs with a team of just a few workers and on a set that you could’ve made in an afternoon with a budget of $5,000.

Yet perhaps Colbert can find solace in this: When Gillis can make millions the way he has, when Conan can be more successful off TV than on it, comedy’s time on TV may be running out anyway.

Editor’s Note

And if you’re interested in reading our other recent stories, find them here:

• Everything About Epstein’s Relationship With Trump

• The Mortgaging of Gen Z’s Future

• Inside Dollar General’s Takeover of America

• America’s Most “Honest” Historian

• Free Speech Dies at the Pub

See you tomorrow.

—Max and Max